The Picture Book Buzz - Interview w/Angela De Groot, Review of Not Pop-Pop + Giveaway

Angela De Groot lived in South Africa as a child. Now she lives in New Jersey with her husband and sons. Sometimes, she still feels like that girl from South Africa. That’s probably why she likes to write children’s books. As a kid, she loved reading scary stories and funny stories, and who-dunnit stories. Some days writing is hard – it doesn’t come out quite right. Then there are the days when it flows – poetry in motion.

She writes because if she doesn’t, the ideas and characters in her head get loud. She probably sounds a little nutty, but she thinks a little nutty is a good thing. She writes because it makes her happy. The more she writes, the happier she is. And the more she writes the better her writing gets. It’s a win-win.

This is Angela’s debut picture book.

Her debut picture book, Not Pop-Pop, illustrated by MacKenzie Haley, was released on August 27th.

Welcome Angela,

Tell us a little about yourself. (Where/when do you write? How long have you been writing? What is your favorite type of book to write?)

Both my parents were storytellers. My dad loved entertaining us with spooky stories that he made up on the spot. My mom had a natural talent for lyrical language and rhyme. I’ve always had a vivid imagination so it’s no surprise that I’m a story-spinner at heart. I loved creative writing at school, but it never occurred to me that it could be a career choice. Instead, I pursued a “sensible” degree, and it was only years later, after my sons were born, that I found my way back to writing. Lyrical, imaginative, thought-provoking stories are my favorite types to write. I write stories that I hope will make readers laugh, that will foster a joy of reading, inspire curiosity and compassion, and create worlds that readers can find and lose themselves in.

That sounds like such a great childhood! Who was your favorite author, illustrator, and/or your favorite book as a child?

When I was five, there was a Christmas party at my mom’s work. Wrapped gifts were randomly distributed to all the kids. Most of the gifts were toys, but when I unwrapped mine, I was delighted to find an illustrated compendium of fairy tales. I read and re-read that book for years, escaping into the stories even in high school. I read it until it fell apart and I had to tape the binding back together. I don’t remember what happened to it. I wish I still had it.

Santa definitely knew what you'd most love to have. What was your inspiration or spark of interest for Not Pop-Pop?

Book cover - a child peers around a library bookshelf at a homeless gentleman who resembles their grandpa.

The library is one of my favorite writing spots. On the second floor, there’s a table by the window that overlooks the pond. A few years ago, while I was furiously scribbling away on a chapter book I was writing, I looked up and saw a man at the table across from mine unpacking his cooler and settling down to eat his lunch. A few days later, I noticed the same man sleeping in a chair, lots of bags at his feet. Each time I went to the library, I saw this man, and I realized that like me, he enjoyed reading and enjoyed watching the turtles and ducks through the window. Unlike me, he didn’t have a home to go to. Some people at the library avoided him. Others complained about him. I found myself wondering what a young child might think when they saw this man with all his worldly belongings at his feet – what questions they might ask. I wondered what this child might think about the way grownups were treating the man. I began to think about my own assumptions and judgements about homelessness and the people experiencing it. My reflections on these interactions sparked the story for Not Pop-Pop.

I'm glad that you wrote this book and captured this experience in a way kids can relate to. How long did it take from the first draft to publication for Not Pop-Pop?

The Not Pop-Pop timeline:

2018: The idea struck. I wrote a messy first draft. I let it rest, then revised and shared it with my crit groups. I revised with their feedback, then shared the manuscript with them again. Rinse and repeat until I felt like I had a solid, well-written, marketable story.

2019: I did my research, then over the course of the year, I submitted NPP to ten editors/agents that I believed would be a good fit. I collected a couple of champagne rejections and a boatload of rejections.

2020: I reimagined and revised NPP, then shared it with my crit partners. More revising and polishing followed. When it was ready, I submitted it to 15 editors/agents. As a GOLD 12 x 12 member, additional submission opportunities opened up to me. I collected a lot of no thank you’s and a few champagne rejections. Then I got lucky on Kid lit Twitter and won a Zoom call with author, Baptiste Paul. We chatted about the manuscript, and afterwards I revised NPP and yet again, shared it with my crit group.

2021: I saw a submission opportunity in the SCBWI Bulletin with a Penguin/Waterbrook editor. This was huge because PRH is usually closed to unagented authors. NPP matched the editor’s wish list, so with fingers, toes, and eyes crossed, I sent it off. Later that year, the editor acquired Not Pop-Pop, and I signed with my agent. Yay!!!

2022 – 2023: Together with my editor, the art director, and the rest of the Penguin/Waterbrook team, MacKenzie and I worked to make Not Pop-Pop the best that it could be.

2024: Not Pop-Pop was released.

That’s 6 years and lots of revising from first draft to publication.

Wow! Thank you so much for such a detailed timeline. It is fascinating to see the book's progress. What was the toughest aspect of writing Not Pop-Pop? And what was the most fun part of writing this book?

To be honest, Not Pop-Pop was a story that pretty much wrote itself – probably because it is based on true life experiences at my library. The hardest part was coming up with a kid character, and then capturing the setting and interactions with kid eyes and kid feelings. Once I had Brian well-established in my head, and I had his personality down, the scenes unfolded naturally. I love that Brian is not only curious and spontaneous, but also observant and introspective. The most fun part of writing this story was finding sound words (plop, thonk, zoom) to make the story an engaging read-aloud.

I like the character of Brian which you created. He reminds me of a few kids I know. When you first saw MacKenzie Haley’s illustrations did anything surprise or amaze you? Which is your favorite spread, or one you really like?

I am thrilled with MacKenzie illustrations - the colors, the characters, and the details that are discovered with each subsequent reading are amazing. I was particularly delighted that MacKenzie recognized my love of turtles and added them even on pages where turtles aren’t even mentioned in the text.

Internal spread - on the left, a boy in bed at night, wide-eyed trying to sleep, while new words swirl around his head. On the right, a train moves along a trackfrom under the bed and across the room.

Text © Angela De Groot, 2024 & Image © MacKenzie Haley, 2024.

Picking a favorite spread is tough. I love the pages where the kids are enjoying Sing-Along Time with Guitar Lady. The spread with the Northern Lights is spectacular! The scene where Brian is processing all the new words he’s learned, and how they relate to the man he refers to as Not Pop-Pop is poignant and powerful. Like I said, MacKenzie did such an amazing job that it’s impossible to pick a favorite.

I really enjoyed the northern lights spread, too. What is one of the most fun or unusual places where you’ve written a manuscript?

When my sons were little and writing time was hard to come by, I wrote on soccer fields, at the dentist’s office, and on the train to work. A few years ago, my kids were bodysurfing with their dad, and I was relaxing under the umbrella to the sounds of the waves and the seagulls. Out of nowhere, an opening line for a picture book popped into my head. I hunted through my beach bag for a pen and then jotted down a messy first draft on the back of a magazine. I’ve also written on airplanes and at the supermarket. You never know when an idea is going to strike.

Ha! I guess that's the sturdier person of a napkin. Is there anything special you want your readers to know about Not Pop-Pop?

Not Pop-Pop is a fun read-aloud. It is full of fun words like ZOOM, SWISH, THONK! and PLOP! These words make for a lively and engaging Story Time. Like the scene in the book where Brian is playing in the library . . .

I do puzzles.

I play with trains. TOOT TOOT!

Until . . . uh-oh!

I CHOO-CHOO to the restroom.

Are there any projects you are working on now that you can share a tidbit with us?

I am polishing up a few picture books, and I’m drafting an early reader series. I’m particularly excited about a picture book inspired by three little girls living on my street. It’s a tender, slice of life story about change and memories, old and new, sentimentality and upcycling. I’m also excited about a slightly dark and creepy picture book that I’m working on.

Intriguing. Good luck with all your endeavors. What is your favorite National Park or Forest, regional park, or city park (anywhere in the world)? Or the one you’re longing to visit. Why?

Photo of Banff National Park, Alberta, Canada

Banff National Park in Alberta, Canada is one of my favorites – Peyto Lake is where my husband popped the question. I enjoy traveling, and I’d love to put a pin in the map for all the National Parks. Nature takes my breath away.

Thank you, Angela for sharing about yourself and your new picture book with us.

For more information about Angela De Groot, or to contact her:

Website: https://angeladegroot8.wordpress.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/angeladegroot8/?hl=en

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AngelaDeGroot8/

Twitter: https://x.com/angeladegroot8

Be sure to keep reading to the end for the giveaway information!

Review of Not Pop-Pop

This is an interesting and thought-provoking way to introduce young children to the issue and some opposing societal reactions to homelessness. Discovering the issue, stigma, and remembrance of the at times forgotten humanity involved with homelessness, this is a great book from a child's point of view for classrooms and families beginning volunteer projects and anyone who needs a refresher on kindness and compassion.

Not Pop-Pop

Author: Angela De Groot

Illustrator: MacKenzie Haley

Publisher: Waterbrook/Random House (2024)

Ages: 3-7

Fiction

Themes:

Homelessness, compassion, discrimination, libraries, and kindness.

Synopsis:

In this sweet and tender picture book, a trip to the library turns into an adventure in kindness and a reminder that people experiencing homelessness deserve compassion and respect—just like every human.

During a visit to the library, Brian is sure he sees his Pop-Pop around the corner—same eyes, same beard, same bushy eyebrows.

Nope, that's not Pop-Pop!

This man brushes his teeth in the restroom and his sneakers are patched with duct tape. Some people make frowny faces and even call him mean words, but Not Pop-Pop loves books, puzzles, and turtles, just like Brian.

He may not be Brian’s pop-pop, but could he be someone’s?

Opening Lines:

Yay! It’s library day.

The doors SWISH open.

I slide my old books down the chute

What I LOVED about the book:

Radiating with excitement, the opening spread follows the young narrator as he dashes through the library doors, pop books into a return box (that has an amazing "book-eating" face), and zig-zags to his favorite comfy spot, surrounded by a stack of books.

Internal spread - on the left mom and boy enter the library and drop books intot he return. On the right, three spot illustrations of the boy runningpast books, zigging past a baby, and zagging past a nana knitting.

Told in a first-person narration, the story feels immediate and personal. The colorful, active illustrations add a touch of whimsy and stunning scenes, like a spectacular northern lights display. When the boy glances up from a book, he's startled to see - "Same eyes. Same beard. Same bushy brows. Pop-Pop?!" But his excited run to see his grandfather ends in a screeching halt when he encounters a homeless man carrying a pillow, cooler, and bag. "WHOA! That's not my pop-pop!"

Internal spread - on the left, the child plops into a beanbag chair with a pile of books. On the right, peering over the top of the book, the child spys a man that looks like his Pop-Pop.

After being momentarily distracted by the Guitar-Lady, the boy returns to pondering over the similarities of this man and his Pop-Pop. They both rest with their feet up, have the same "rumbly voice," talk to themselves, and click their tongues. Except Not Pop-Pop's clothes are dingier and patched, he talks louder, brushes his teeth in the library bathroom, and takes canned food from the donation box. Not at all like his Pop-Pop.

Over the course of a few library visits, the boy discovers that Not Pop-Pop also likes turtles and is sad when it rains, just like himself. Using his mom as a sounding board for exploring bigger words and concepts, the boy discovers the meaning of "spectacular," "vagrant," "bum," and "compassion." And witnesses the attitudes and meanness of some adults toward this homeless man. As he tries to sleep, these words and thoughts swirl around in his brain. And he realizes that "He’s not my pop-pop, but . . . he’s someone’s pop-pop."

The ending is tender and encouraging, providing a thoughtful way into a discussion about our perceptions, judgements, and interactions with others. Back matter includes information on homelessness, ideas for ways to help, and resources and suggestions for parents, caregivers, and teachers. This is a touching and hopeful book dealing with a very complex issue from a one-on-one personal level that kids can understand and model.

Resources:

check out this idea for making and filling homelessness bags with younger kids.
try some of the ways to help at the back of the book, including writing "a kindness card to put in donation
packages and goody bags."

read Last Stop on Market Street by Matt de la Pena, A Shelter in Our Car, by Monica Gunning,
Uncle Willie and the Soup Kitchen by Dyanne Disalvo Ryan, The Can Man by Laura E. Williams, The Old Man by Sarah V and Fly Away Home by Eve Bunting (a homeless boy & father in an airport). How are they different or similar to Not Pop-Pop? How do the characters react and try to help in each of these books?