The Picture Book Buzz - Interview w/Bob McKinnon, Thai My Phuong, and Review of America Gives Thanks

Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, podcast host, children’s author and teacher. What unites all of his work is the desire to help people move up in life – just as others have helped him.

Bob hosts the NPR podcast Attribution and is Director of The Social Mobility Lab at City College of New York. He writes the Moving Up Mondays Substack and his work has been featured in The New York Times, CBS Sunday Morning, Esquire, Parents, PBS, NPR, Fast Company, and The Kelly Clarkson Show among other outlets.

He lives in New York, with his wife, three daughters and their dog Scout, where somehow he still maintains  his childhood allegiances to all Boston sports teams.

Bob is a New York Times Best Selling children’s author of Three Little Engines and America’s Dreaming.

Thai My Phuong a Vietnamese illustrator who loves phở, boba milk tea, and homemade coffee from her husband.

She graduated with a BFA in Interior Design. Working in publishing, doing various part-time jobs, she began to love illustration and storytelling more. Given this, she made the decision to move to Brighton, UK, to study an MA in Sequential Design/Illustration with a partial scholarship. Since then, she has cultivated a deep passion for visual storytelling and teaching for international publishers, magazines, brands, and universities.

She now resides in Chicago with her husband and feisty cat, Smokey. In her free time, she loves drawing cards to send to friends, sketching on the go, riding her moped, and practicing creative thinking to be a better storyteller.

Thai’s is the illustrator of Miss Prim Goes Wild  by Katy Rose (2025), Another Word for Neighbor by Angela Pham Krans (2025), A City Full of Santas by Joanna Ho (2024), Gingerbread Dreidels by Jane Breskin Zalben (2024), and America’s Dreaming by Bob McKinnon (2024).

For more information about Bob McKinnon and Thai My Phuong see our earlier interview (here).

Their newest picture book collaboration, America Gives Thanks, was released on August 5^th.

Welcome back Bob and Phuong,

As your second picture book collaboration, did you have more interaction with each other during the creation stages of America Gives Thanks?

BOB - First off, I couldn't ask for a better illustrator to work with. Phuong is just incredible. Beyond her illustrations, which are so beautiful, she is such a kind and positive spirit. We definitely collaborated more this time around and there was a lot of great back and forth not only on the art direction but also on a key part of the story.  

PHUONG - Thank you for your question. For the second book collaboration, I love that even though I worked from home, I had many great collaborations and communications with the team through emails or shared files, as a convenient way for me to learn from their feedback and suggestions. The second story - America Gives Thanks excited me since I loved my first trip to Washington, DC, a few years ago. And I’m grateful that all the feedback from Bob, Elizabeth, and Taylor helps my artwork to be in harmony with Bob’s beautiful and meaningful words.

It's great that you got to work together more this time. Sounds like you both make a great team. Bob, what was your inspiration or spark of interest for America Gives Thanks?

BOB - Like most creations, there were several sparks of inspiration that led to America Gives Thanks. To begin with, my editor, Elizabeth Lee at Penguin, thought that a non-traditional book about gratitude would fill a real need around Thanksgiving. In conceiving the story itself, I was moved by an essay that my daughter had written entering seventh grade. She wrote about the events of January 6th and COVID and not being able to understand why people couldn’t get along and help one another more. Her realization that “the world isn’t rainbows and unicorns anymore” was such a gut punch. Seeing your kid so plainly lay out the moment her innocence was lost is tough for a parent to see.

At the same time, I know that as a country,  we have a long history of people standing up for what’s right and helping make the world better - not just for themselves but for others. 

Looking for a little more inspiration, I went to Washington DC, where I saw children on field trips who were in awe of the history around them. So, I decided to take myself on a field trip and highlight these stories of remarkable people - who raised their voices - respectfully - to make our country great.

I then wrote the first draft on the Amtrak home to New York.

I am so sorry for your daughter and all the other children in America today. And I love that you took yourself on a field trip! Phuong, what about the America Gives Thanks manuscript appealed to you as an illustrator?

PHUONG - As I mentioned above, America Gives Thanks reminds me of my first trip to Washington, D.C., during a 3-month road trip across the US. I was impressed and had a wonderful experience enjoying the beauty and magnificence of this city.

When working on illustrating America Gives Thanks, the amazing part was an opportunity to combine my real experience visiting the city with Bob’s imagination regarding how historical figures from significant city views - have lively moments to share their stories or messages during the curious journey of America and the whole class. In that opportunity, I could draw how I feel about Washington, D.C., merged with how I’ve learned from history in a truly magical way. This made me feel proud and grateful to be a part of this book.

You did a wonderful job merging history with the class trip in such an engaging way! As a sequel picture book, what was the hardest or most challenging thing for you about writing or illustrating America Gives Thanks?  And what was the most fun?

BOB - Let’s start with the most fun. I loved spending more time with America, Mr. Downs, and the class. It is also great to find ways to connect the lives of historical characters with the world that children are trying to navigate today. Finally, it is such a wonderful experience when you see this story come to life through new illustrations. Phuong’s work is so brilliant, and this color palette was especially warm and striking. Seeing how she finds new ways to share America’s feelings and point of view without ever showing the character is pretty cool.

In terms of challenges, I think settling on the story is always the most difficult. In my mind, there are a million learning adventures that I’d love to take America on, narrowing down to just one is pretty tough. In the same vein, there are so many historical figures that I’d love to introduce America to. I think in the first draft, I may have had twice as many but then I needed to edit for length! 

PHUONG - The most challenging thing for me was the same as the challenge in America's Dreaming, which is how to visualize the existence of the main character without truly viewing the clarity or oversharing details. I had only a few ‘tools’ to depict America: the camera angles, the body language through the shadow, and sometimes America’s hands (with gloves). After several revisions, I’m happy with the outcome, and I hope my efforts following the team's feedback will satisfy the reading experiences of the readers.

The most fun part was illustrating the historical figures as half statues or paintings or voices, and as half persons who magically moved or time-traveled back to talk with America. Every day, rendering a spread, I felt like I was living in a magical movie scene. I also love to draw autumn plus schools. I can’t wait to read this again in the Fall season.

All of the challenges or fun experiences - all thanks to Bob’s incredible idea and story - and I'm thankful to have opportunities to illustrate his books.

I am in awe of the fact that you can create this point of view and that Phuong is able to imbue such emotion and inquisitiveness into, effectively, the camera. Allowing the reader to step into America's shoes and participate in the story. It is pure genius! How long did it take from the first draft or initial sketches to publication for America Gives Thanks?

BOB - I think the first draft was shared in late 2022. So, I’d say two and a half years.

PHUONG - I remembered starting a sketch for America Gives Thanks during early spring in 2024. Back then, I was living in Pasadena (where there was a lack of autumn vibe or season). It took approximately 1-2 months for storyboard sketches and a few rounds of revision before I could work on coloring final art, which needed a few months in Fall 2024 to color and revise. And I was lucky to color America Gives Thanks within the true Fall season while I had a short work trip to Pennsylvania.

So, about average for many picture books. Bob, when you first saw Phuong’s illustrations in America Gives Thanks, did anything surprise, amaze, or delight you? Which is your favorite spread?

Text © Bob McKinnon, 2025. Image © Thai My Phuong, 2025.

BOB - I am absolutely delighted by the colors. They are so rich and positive. In terms of my favorite spread or illustration, that’s always a tough question. But I would say, it’s the spread that shares the story of Marian Anderson and introduces the idea that change ripples out from the act of a single person. The ripple effect and the reflection of her image and those of others in the reflecting pool at the national mall are wonderful.

It is such a stunning illustration and special moment. Phuong, is there a spread that you were especially excited about or proud of? Or perhaps one which is your favorite spread?

PHUONG - I love most of the spreads. For now, I’d love to share a few of my proud spreads.

Text © Bob McKinnon, 2025. Image © Thai My Phuong, 2025.

The first most favorite is the spread about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I had a chance to draw how she says Hi lively to America through her portrait frame in the Great Hall of the Supreme Court, and some of the objects from the portrait artwork, such as books and flower jars, also fly around. I'm excited for a scene that can bring the magic and surprise atmosphere.

My second most favorite one is Bob’s favorite spread (thank you so much, Bob!): the spread features Marian Anderson with the ripple reflection. Even though I love drawing anything related to water, it was a challenging scene for me to color and merge Marian's story into the transparent, moving element like water. I’m glad that the outcome works well. And I hope the readers will love it, too.

The entire book is magical. You did such an amazing job with the illustrations. Phuong, many illustrators leave treasures or weave their own story (or elements) throughout the illustrations. Did you do this in America Gives Thanks? If so, could you share one or more with us?

PHUONG - My treasures in America Give Thanks are actually my natural love for interior, exterior, landscapes, since I was originally an Interior Design student at a University of Architecture. In visual storytelling, when a story includes many characters (classmates and historical figures), I could simplify the backgrounds to emphasize the characters. However, I did enjoy drawing perspective and all the indoor and outdoor details, so I had the choice to spend more time to feature some major beauties of urban planning and architecture, sculptures, and interiors of historical places in Washington, DC. I hope this choice wasn’t so overwhelming and somehow introduces the beauty of DC to readers around the world.

I enjoyed seeing all the details. I hope the other readers will as well. What has been the most rewarding part of the publishing process for America Gives Thanks?

BOB -  I think the most rewarding part of the process is yet to come - reading the book with children. We have several school events lined up - including going back to my own elementary schools in Boston and Pennsylvania. Sharing America’s story with children is the greatest reward of all. Particularly at a time when we need more stories like this. One’s grounded in hope, gratitude, and doing what’s right.

PHUONG - To me, the most rewarding part is always the feeling of unboxing the box of copies, then holding the real book in hand, and reading everything again with the physical form of a book. And then, sometimes, seeing the America Gives Thanks display in some bookstores, or receiving feedback from readers. As an illustrator in a book-making journey (which normally takes a long time), it’s an honor for me to see the book come to life for real, and knowing that this special dual book, which was amazingly contributed to by the whole team, made readers happy!

I hope you both get to enjoy lots of these moments! What's something you both want your readers to know or hope they discover about America Gives Thanks?

BOB - America Gives Thanks serves as a reminder that, in spite of all our challenges and differences, our history is filled with stories of people who have voiced complaints in order to “bend the moral arc toward justice” and to “form a more perfect Union.”

History is complicated. We want our children to both be proud of their country and to, when appropriate, question it. But when they do so - do it respectively and with compassion.

PHUONG - This is a beautiful question! I just hope readers can feel that the book, inspired by history, could be magical and relatable to generations as well as the future. I believe some messages, lessons, or visions from this book, the author, and the featured figures are always timeless.

I totally agree with you both. Are there any new projects you are working on now that you can share a tidbit with us?

BOB - There are a few new children’s book  projects in development - including a potential new adventure for America. I’m also working on a non-fiction book for adults based in part on my weekly Moving Up Mondays Substack.  Stay tuned for more news on both!

PHUONG - I’m currently excited about America Gives Thanks to be introduced more to readers during the back-to-school and Fall seasons.

Besides this, there are two lovely and warm projects I’m working on. One written by Mary Nethery and Kirby Larson - a story inspired by real-life second graders in Virginia - follows a class’s letter-writing campaign to find a forever home for rescue animals - will be published in Fall 2026.

The second one will be published soon, early next year - Leroy Has Something to Say, a picture book written by Emily Rosenthal, features a story about a gardening ghost who tries to use the language of flowers to be friends with a non-speaking girl who uses a tablet to communicate. I’m excited about those two books, too, and I can’t wait to share more about them next year.

Last question, what animal or natural feature (place) do you want to learn more about? Why?

BOB - I’ve been hearing a lot of wonderful things about octopuses and how smart, caring, and misunderstood they are. In fact, your question reminded me that I want to go back and watch the documentary, My Octopus Teacher - which I understand is amazing. I’d also like to learn about - and experience - The Northern Lights.  They inspire such awe; I’d love to get a little piece of that 🙂.

PHUONG - This is a tough question, because I’ll always want to learn more about animals and natural features since there are so many. For now, I’m curious about the Ring-billed gull. I recently moved to Chicago and am in awe of Lake Michigan. For some random walks, I always stop by some little Ring-billed gulls who 'talk' dramatically and interact with their community while confidently taking a relaxing walk around humans (and stealing snacks sometimes). I just love their personality and their body language when they are next to humans and nature, and hopefully, I can introduce their humor and confidence as new characters to my future projects.

I hope you both succeed in your wishes. Thank you, Bob and Phuong for sharing with us a bit about yourselves and your new picture book.

To find out more about Bob McKinnon, or to contact him:

Website: https://movingupusa.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/movingupusa/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/movingupusa/

To find out more about Thai My Phuong, or to contact her:

Website: https://thaiphuong.net/work

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thai.phuong.artwork/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TamypusTinyThings

Review of America Gives Thanks

As much as I loved the inventiveness of this immensely talented duo's first book together - America's Dreaming - I am floored by this sequel! A thought-provoking, hopeful, and honest picture book about how complaints and disagreements can lead to important and needed change in our country.

America Gives Thanks

Author: Bob McKinnon

Illustrator: Thai My Phuong

Publisher: Penguin Workshop/Young Readers Group (August 5, 2025)

Ages: 4 - 8

Historical Fiction

Themes:

American history, change, standing up for what's right, thankfulness, and hope.

Synopsis:

In this stand-alone companion to America’s Dreaming, New York Times bestselling author Bob McKinnon and celebrated illustrator Thai My Phuong craft a beautiful, sweeping story about the importance of speaking up for what really matters.

Have you ever wondered why people complain so much?

America is very excited for their class’s upcoming field trip to Washington, DC. But when the other kids start complaining about how not excited they are, America is confused. Their teacher, Mr. Downs, uses this as a learning opportunity: sometimes complaining—when done right—can actually be useful.

As the class walks through historic halls like the Supreme Court and around the National Mall where they visit celebrated monuments like the Lincoln Memorial, historical figures come alive for America (that portrait of Ruth Bader Ginsburg is definitely winking). Each figure offers tales on how complaining can lead to long-lasting change and hope for a better world. For that, America is so thankful.

Opening Lines:

I stare out the school bus window. Autumn leaves flicker by.

I'm excited for my field trip but my friends are making me

wonder if our visit to Washington, D.C., might not be so fun after all.

"I don't get why we have to learn

about history while other grades get to

go to the ropes course."

"I bet we're going to spend all day

looking at statutes and paintings."

"My dad says all they do

in Washington is fight."

What I LOVED about this book:

The opening scene, of twelve diverse kids on a bus enroute to a Washington, D.C. field trip with their teacher perfectly captures the mix of excitement, curiosity, and grumpiness of the opening text. As with the first book, America's Dreaming, the scene is observed through the main character America's point of view. But, the only thing the reader sees or knows about the child America is a gloved hand holding a map (featured at the beginning of the book) and the child's commentary that their initial excitement for this fall trip is wanning with their classmate's increasing complaints.

Text © Bob McKinnon, 2025. Image © Thai My Phuong, 2025.

After offering possible reasons for the other student's complaints - annoyance, perceived unfairness, a desire to be heard - the w0nderfully even keeled teacher, Mr. Downs, wryly notes that, "People have been coming to Washington, D.C. for hundreds of years to complain."

Accepting Mr. Downs challenge to listen really carefully during the trip, America sneaks over to Ruth Bader Ginsburg's portrait and listens . . .

Text © Bob McKinnon, 2025. Image © Thai My Phuong, 2025.

I adore both America's shadow and the magical playfulness of RBG as she whispers, "You can disagree without being disagreeable" and the light magical feel of the books and vase of flowers drifting out of the frame with her. As well as the way Mr. Downs is always looking directly at the reader when he addresses America. It is an ingenious way for the illustrations to play along with the text and subtly meld the reader with the main character, gently guiding the young reader through America's thoughts and discoveries. By bringing the idea that arguing can be done calmly back to the child's remembered interactions with their brother, Bob McKinnon gives the reader a way to think about RBG's comment relevant to each of their own experiences.

Text © Bob McKinnon, 2025. Image © Thai My Phuong, 2025.

The class learns that speaking up can cause ripples that affect change like the singer Marian Anderson (illustration above in interview) and the many thousands who have protested at the Lincoln memorial. As the class looks at the President's statute, America's sure that Lincoln whispers a reminder to "always stand with anyone who stands right." And the child remembers how a classmate stood up for them. I enjoy the slightly magical humanization/personalization of the portraits and statues, accompanied by the soft trail of sparkles and fall leaves that swirl across the pages. Bringing a modern relevance into a child's life by gently making these historic figures feel real and having America internalize their comments is one of the best aspects of this historical fiction. The various locations throughout the capital tour allow for some stunning fall landscapes set amidst impressive architecture.

When the class finally stops for lunch, FDR's statute also quietly addresses America, "the test of progress . . . is whether we provide enough for those who have too little," In addition to causing the child to share their lunch with a classmate who didn't have any food, providing a personal relevance for the reader and America's thought that it's okay to complain if you need help, it should give the adult reader a moment to pause and decide if they too have "passed the progress test."

The field trip continues with a stop in the Capitol building and culminates with a wonderfully illustrated composite spread of the people America encountered and the child's internalization of the messages and a touching and thought-provoking ending. A note explains the author's motivation and hopes. It's a good book whenever taking stock of what we are thankful for and what more we can each do for another. This is a timely, gorgeous, introductory overview of some important historical figures who complained and fought for equality, progress, and a more just and peaceful nation.

Resources:

• what do you complain about most? Why? Did any of America's discoveries give you ideas for ways to explain your opinions or to understand another's point of view?

• is it something that you and your friends could all join together to voice your complaint to your parents, teachers, or principals?

• was there any Washington D.C. building, statute, or person that you want to know more about? Or someone you think should have been included?

If you're in the area, check out this book event w/ Bob McKinnon:

September 7, 2025 - Politics and Prose (5015 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC 20008)

Time:10:30am - 11:30am